Thank you, Mark. Got 'em this time! You are probably right - spam blocker.

See you Monday!
Jen

I think you make a very good point Jenn, Clubs like ours are also competing with groups like MyJeepRocks which don't require meetings, or dues, or bylaws and they are really growing while local Clubs are dying off and Cal4wheel memberships are dropping too. My hope was updating the bylaws could help our Club grow and attract new members.

I finally had a chance to read the bylaws, and I have to say that both Steve and Jennifer make great points.
There are people involved with this club that have been active and involved for years. If not for them, there would be no High Desert Four Wheelers. Long before Mark and I were members of this club, I was a board member at United Desert Charities (Angel Hall). I became a board member there in 1998, and at that time, UDC was, as they are today, hosting the club meetings. I've seen the changes the club has been through over those 10 years, and I know the value of the folks that stuck in there and kept the club going.
While I have also not been able to participate as much as I would like lately, I am hoping to at least interject a little into this discussion that might have value as, strange as it seems, I deal with bylaws and parliamentary procedure both as a board officer in several nonprofits, as a trained Parliamentarian, and as a professional nonprofit trainer. Also, because I love this club and I have a lot of respect for its members.

When Mark and I first joined the club it was immediately apparent that there were people whose role in the club was more social and people who were hard core offroaders, but everyone had the same thing in common, a real love for the sport of it and a solid affection for the club in general. If not for Mark, I'd be one of those people whose life interfered with my ability to participate, I AM one of those people, so I fully understand what Jennifer and Steve are saying except that my membership would not be in jeopardy because Mark can make most the runs and meetings. For me, the club has always been more social because I simply have other commitments that must be met, but that does not mean that I have not been able to make valuable contributions to the club when I was able, and the same goes for a whole lot of the members who aren't fortunate to have a spouse that is really active in club runs. I would simply ask that it be taken into consideration while crafting the bylaws that there are a lot of factors that determine how much people are able to participate so participation requirements should respect that.
It might be beneficial to consider "and/OR" language in Article III. For example, "a. Attend at least 2 club runs and 1 club meeting per quarter, OR 2 club meetings per quarter, within the fiscal year of July 1 through June 30." As a quarter is 3 months and it would mean members making 2 of 3 meetings it might still be overly restrictive, but its a place to start.

Bylaws are meant to be crafted to serve membership. They don't have to create a schism, as every bylaw article is subject to the approval of membership. By strict reading of the bylaws that I just read, the vast majority of current club members would have their memberships disqualified. That in and of itself should be a signal that the bylaws are exceedingly punitive. If I were a member voting on these bylaws tomorrow, I have to say that I would not vote in favor of Article III, section (a) without amending it, and I would never vote in favor of any section requiring a club member to disclose personal information to the board. Article IX, section 8 is also an issue because it is to broad and the general responsibilities of the club officers is not defined well enough, which would make the legal standard Roberts Rules, which does not allow for Chair or officer actions without a simple majority membership vote. There is also no provision in the bylaws for the removal of officers or the replacement of officers should one resign or simply not be a member in good standing.

Please understand that I am not trying to throw a monkey wrench into the mess here. I agree that the club needs solid, working bylaws. Quite a few of the issues I have seen arise in the past would not have happened with good governing documents. As with all governing documents, the typical purpose is normally to determine the responsibilities of club officers and the duties of membership that is in line with the vision that the general membership has for the club. If this club were just a typical club or organization I was advising on drafting bylaws, my advice would be pretty straightforward at this point.
1. Understand that bylaws aren't crafted overnight. Don't let the discussion get heated and make sure ALL the club members understand that they have input here.
2. Be prepared to have several readings of the bylaws if that is what it takes. No club is ever going to achieve 100% satisfaction, the goal has to be writing bylaws that work for the members, that allow for good management, growth and participation.
3. Good bylaws serve a distinct purpose, to define the rights and responsibility of membership, and to give the officers the ability to carry it all out in their defined roles in as simple a language as possible. I know its frustrating because its always hard to get people to volunteer on any committee drafting bylaws.
4. The club does not benefit by having only a handful of members that qualify as members in good standing, nor does it benefit if its a huge club with no participation. People will only show up and pay dues if they truly want to be a member of the club. In my opinion, not only do people have different skill levels, but we also have members that might have life responsibilities or even physical issues that might interfere with their ability to go on runs, but that doesn't stop them from being valuable members or keep them from contributing in ways that can sustain the club in the long run.


This post ended up way longer than I intended when I sat down to write it, and I apologize for that. I would add one more thing, don't get discouraged and stick with it. The bylaws are in draft form, but that doesn't mean that they can't be changed. This club has some fantastic members, and everyone has their heart in the right place.
We all need to remember that this is supposed to be fun, and there is a balance that can be struck between maximum participation and the general life responsibilities, restrictions and commitments we all have.

Terry,
We are a a four wheel drive club, everyone knows that, that is why we are all here. I don't think anyone is saying that the club should not have several runs per month, or that the club should in any way limit the number of runs offered. I don't think that anyone is questioning that the club focus should be on four-wheeling.
The reason, in my opinion, that run requirements have not been enforced in the past is simply because they are overly restrictive on people who are in all other ways valuable, committed club members.
While I agree wholeheartedly that participation is a must, it is also a must that it be understood that not everyone can participate at the same level. Some people have fantastic rigs and can participate on hard trails, some people have more time and can make more club events. The club will be wildly successful if it aims to satisfy the wants of those who want to run trails at every opportunity as long as it also makes a place for people with more challenging schedules and/or different skill levels.
The loudest complaint I've ever heard is that the club didn't do enough runs. The second loudest was that there were people in the club that wanted it to be purely social, which one again is saying the club all social and not enough wheeling. The easiest fix I can see is to work toward satisfying those who want more runs because that should, in the end, be what satisfies everyone. I have never, ever heard anyone complain that the club isn't social enough.

I also understand some of the frustrations that have come up in the past when the club was not actively doing runs and there didn't seem to be a lot of motivation in that direction. A little flexibility will go a long way here.
Maybe what should be considered is requiring that the club offer a set number of runs per quarter instead of trying to enforce restrictive membership requirements that would effectively cut membership to just a handful of people.
The easiest argument is this, if I, or any other member, can't make a meeting or a run, it doesn't effect anyone in the club or the effective running of the club. If however the club starts enforcing rules that the majority of the members simply can not follw, it effects almost everyone. There is NO benefit to the club if the club loses a bunch of members, and if that is the easiest foreseen result of enforcing that particular section of the bylaws, than the problem is with the bylaws, not with the membership.
It's pretty easy to look at the membership list and do the math, most of the current members would not qualify for membership under the bylaws as proposed, so you either completely gut the club or change the bylaws.
Please know that I mean no offense in what I am saying. I know the huge task that bylaws can be in the absolute best of circumstances and I absolutely know you guys are coming from the best place possible. I also know that if half the membership showed up for a meeting and really read these, they would not pass a majority vote if the majority understood that they would effectively be ending their membership by voting to pass them.

I'll do anything I can to help with this process, I'll make the time. There is no good reason for bylaws to create a divide in this club if everyone is committed to simply providing the best possible situation for members while promoting the best possible vision for the club.

Since, as Denise pointed out, this is a draft of the bylaws, I thought I'd add a couple of thoughts ahead of the meeting, for the sake of streamlining the discussion on Monday...

1) Article III for Regular Membership
1 (f) says that a member will pay dues to California Assoc. of 4 Wheel Drive Clubs, Inc.

Shouldn't it also say something to the effect that membership to HD4W will be maintained as outlined in Article IV? Dues should probably be an explicit part of regular membership.

and,

2) Is it common to put the specific amount of dues for the local and state organization in the bylaws? I'm referencing the opening paragraph of Article IV. I'm thinking that our bylaws will need to be ammended every time CA4WDC has an increase. I'm not as familiar with bylaw protocol as some, so I thought I would just throw it out there.

A sincere thank you to the bylaw committee and executive board for all of your hard-work and committment to High Desert 4 Wheelers. See you all on Monday.

Jennifer, I sent you a PM regarding a run planned for tomorrow

First off I want to say Thank You Steve, Jennifer & Denise for your feedback! I love that there are still some people out there that have a heartfelt feeling for the club. My intention is not to get rid of members, but motivate who we have. Being a club member is about four wheeling first.
Now, please do take that as the only reason to be a member of the club. The club is also about other activities as well, trail clean ups, club campouts, club picnics, cruise ins & any other activities that involve the membership getting together as a whole. I understand that "life" has it's own agenda as I am subject to it. I have a job that requires 24 hr on call being a member of management (I am a maintenance supervisor responsibe for several sites with a staff of 17 mechanics)! Yet, I still find time to do something with the club. I have spent my life in community service in the Antelope Valley, Cub Scouts (den leader & asst pack master), Baseball coach (little league & pony league, president of the colt league for 5 yrs), an umpire with AVUA & active with my local church.
My goal is to motivite people in the club to step up and suggest activites that they can attend. I ask this of you who are feeling singled out, please don't feel that way. I don't have an agenda to "single out" anyone in anyway! Stay with us through this bylaw revision period, give feedback and be a part of the active club. It's easy to turntail and run when things don't go your way, but club membership is finding a compromise and willing to stay with the small thing you don't agree with. We will have a third bylaw meeting with revisions given during this past month. Please send your comments to the committe members. I will send an e-mail out to all members of who they are.

Again, Thank you Jennifer, Steve & Denise for you feedback, it will help shape the bylaws
Terry

Jez Terry you would make a hell of a politician............................

Terry,
You're doing a fantastic job, and I'm really happy you have all signed on to redraft the bylaws, which from experience I can attest is not the easiest job in the world.

the current "old " by-laws have us being 'incorporated' and such which i think might be missing? it is too cold for me to type in my office here. but one thing for shure,between all of the group we have here the entire city could easily operated let alone just our club. there are lots and lots of intelligence at work here,if all this is aimed the right direction nothing but good for certain is bound to result!!
hopefull i will remain, see u all monday. thank you/steve